Raspberry Pi 4B and LibreELEC 10.0: Not so "great" after all ?

    I'm running a Raspberry Pi 3B (not the "+" Model) with LibreELEC 9.2.8 and everything (Watching Movies, Listen to MP3 Music, Streaming Videos from the Internet) works fine except for one thing that bothers me:

    The Pi 3B couldn’t decode some of my Videos which are 10 Bit or H256 encoded.

    Must be a Problem with the Hardware (not powerful enough), because these Videos play without an Problems on my PC, running LibreELEC 9.2.8.

    Than I thought to myself:

    Why not by a Raspberry Pi 4B ?

    It has a more powerful CPU than the Pi 3B and the GPU is more powerful too and can Hardwaredecode H265 and H264 Movies.

    I didn't own a 4K-TV, so a Full-HD Resolution is just fine.

    Because of that, the combination of a Raspberry Pi 4B and LibreELEC 10.0 must be work great for me.

    But then I came around this Board an noticed how much Trouble and Problems People get with this combination even if they do some simple an basic things like connecting their Pi to the TV or play some simple (non 4K) videos.

    So it makes me wonder where the problem is:

    Is it the Pi 4B which has some "faulty" or "tricky" Hardware ?

    Is it LibreELEC 10.0 ? Was it put out to quick and has still some serious bugs ?

    Or a the people to stupid to use this combination of Hardware and Software ? (Personaly I didn' think so)

    I can get over the problem with the few 10 Bit or H256 encoded Videos I got and which will not play on the Pi 3B.

    So for now I will stay with this Machine and LibreELEC 9.2.8 and wait till all the Problems with the Raspberry Pi 4B and LibreELEC 10.0 will be fixed because why should I change a running System to another one that gives me Problems and Trouble ?

    I run 10.0 on a Pi 4B and it works flawlessly. I don't really use any of the more esoteric functions or add-ons - I mainly watch 1080p H264 and H265 videos which I stream via ethernet from a NAS - but nevertheless it just works.

    It might also be worth pointing out that you have come to a technical support forum so the vast majority of threads are going to be about problems. No-one much turns up to these places just to tell everyone that their Libreelec installation is working fine.

    Please note RPi 4B is still a relatively new kind of HW and it always takes some time to be fully adopted by developers community.

    There's a lot of work needs to be done on (a new) drivers and it is still in progress.

    Keep in mind that the LE community is based on volunteers who develop this software in their spare time and without claim to reward. And although the LE 10 is still not perfect, they do a great job here.

    There are many fundamental changes between versions 9 and 10, which is why this transitional step is so challenging, but these changes will accelerate and facilitate the future development of LE. So we (LE users) should be grateful and still a little patient...

    The majority of issues with RPi4 are due to bad PSUs, bad cables, Argon cases, users not reading release notes that detail differences between old and new ways of doing things and/or having fundamentally wrong expectations to start with. Plus Halloway comment on the nature of support forums being full over users with problems is also on point .. it's the reason a support forum exists :)

    I'm running an RPi4B as the family "daily driver" without any hassles. For me LE10 is miles better than LE9.2 due to more features (HDR, HBR audio, etc.) and the only problems I occasionally encounter are 100% due to my own experimental changes in a self-built image.

    NB: be aware that RPi4 support for 4K is limited to HEVC, not H264 .. we've had some animé fans expecting miracles with 10-bit H264 content.

    I am on a RPI3B and i am running Libreelec 11 nightlies. The only thing i miss is the h265 playback. But i know the reason for the change and i made that t.r.a.d.e because now i can actually stream videos and have bluetooth audio as well. Back in 9.2 i had audio and video sync issues with this particular combination. Now it works great. I can do 720/1080p h264 and it is more than enough for me. I am pretty sure that in time, most problems will be resolved. Gotta be patient with free software. It is free for a reason.

    Edited once, last by twilightened (October 3, 2021 at 5:28 PM).

    Hardware deinterlace is in private testing. 3D support is nowhere on the official priority list but one of the Pi devs is a 3D fan so it will probably get reimplemented out of self-interest eventually. Software optimisation for HEVC is unlikely to be reimplemented as it was. Most of the tricks required will be hard to upstream and this time around (after 9+ years of learning the hard-way what it means to maintain downstream forks) the goal for the Pi Foundation is to upstream everything. I'll never say it will be never be done, but I think it's unlikely and best case, it's going to take a large effort over a long period of time to happen .. by which time a large percentage of users will have upgraded to new hardware.

    Quote from chewitt

    The majority of issues with RPi4 are due to bad PSUs, bad cables, Argon cases, users not reading release notes that detail differences between old and new ways of doing things and/or having fundamentally wrong expectations to start with.

    Any chance you can expand on your concerns re Argon cases? I love mine, the form factors is a big win for me.

    Absolutely loving my 3 day old 8gb PI4 (Canakit case w/fan). Audio passthrough has improved AVR experience. Still waiting for my 4gb versions. Haven't tested my HIFIBerry/touchscreens yet but looking forward to some rendering improvements.

    RPi 4 8GB - LE 10 can't play 4k "Lupa sync test" video in h264 format. Strange thing is the audio playback happens, not sure if video require an actual 4K display.

    Code
    Codec: H264 - MPEG-4 AVC(part 10) (avc1)
Video resolution: 3840x2160
Frame rate: 25
    Quote from PANiCnz

    Any chance you can expand on your concerns re Argon cases? I love mine, the form factors is a big win for me.

    I see users "loving the case" but having issues with internal physical connectivity within the case which gets blamed on software, and a general lack of good softwaer support for things like GPIO buttons, e.g. it works in Py2 but not Py3.

    Quote from ebym
    Codec: H264 - MPEG-4 AVC(part 10) (avc1) Video resolution: 3840x2160 Frame rate: 25

    RPi4 supports H264 up-to 1080p so this is expected. If you re-encode the media to HEVC (which is supported at 4K) it will play fine.

    Quote from ebym

    RPi 4 8GB - LE 10 can't play 4k "Lupa sync test" video in h264 format. Strange thing is the audio playback happens, not sure if video require an actual 4K display.

    Code
    Codec: H264 - MPEG-4 AVC(part 10) (avc1)
Video resolution: 3840x2160
Frame rate: 25

    Pi4 only supports hardware acceleration of UHD content if it's h.265/HEVC encoded. This file is h.264/AVC encoded and the Pi only supports that codec up to 1080p resolution, so won't play UHD/4K h.264/AVC content.

    So RPI3 did not have any kind of hardware video decoding right? It did everything via software. And RPI4 only has HEVC hardware decoding. And that is probably because no patent is required for the use of hevc. H264 on the other hand is bound to some patents. So RPI would be more costly if it was sold with a h264 hardware decoding enabled cpu on it (which i think is not even needed). I mean of course if you are trying to play 4K, 8K videos, maybe you run into problems there. I guess RPI is not built for this kind of media playback. Gotta have something more powerful. Gotta open up the wallet there :)

    Quote from twilightened

    So RPI3 did not have any kind of hardware video decoding right? It did everything via software.And RPI4 only has HEVC hardware decoding. And that is probably because no patent is required for the use of hevc. H264 on the other hand is bound to some patents. So RPI would be more costly if it was sold with a h264 hardware decoding enabled cpu on it (which i think is not even needed). I mean of course if you are trying to play 4K, 8K videos, maybe you run into problems there. I guess RPI is not built for this kind of media playback. Gotta have something more powerful. Gotta open up the wallet there :)

    No - that's incorrect.

    Pi0,1,2,3 all have h.264 hardware decoding for up to 1080p as standard. They had separate, optional paid-for licences for MPEG2 and VC-1 hardware decoding, again limited to 1080p.

    h.265/HEVC decoding on the Pi0-3 wasn't implemented in the video decoder (as h.264/MPEG2/VC-1 were) - but there was some clever GPU+CPU combination code that accelerated h.265/HEVC decoding more than basic CPU-only decoding on those platforms.

    The Pi 4B has the same, or very similar, VPU as the Pi0-3 range for h.264 decoding (again up to 1080p), but MPEG2 and VC-1 are now decoded in software only (with no hardware decode licences available for that platform). A separate, and additional h.265/HEVC decoder module has been added to the SoC used in the Pi 4B - which works up to UHD.

    My comment about h.265/HEVC being the only codec that is supported for UHD decoding in hardware on the Pi 4B stands, h.264 hardware decoding on all Pis (0-4) is only supported up to 1080p

    Edited once, last by noggin (October 5, 2021 at 9:41 AM).

    Hi @all,

    in my opinion it is all based on the wrong expectations. The RPI boards, Kodi or libreelec are not from big companies. Just out of the box and running.

    It is more do-it-yourself. You have to learn alot about everything. You have to read many tutorials, how-to, FAQs and of course alot in support-forums like this one here. The process of learning is really great. And in the end you stop streaming your 4k 24fps Dolby Atmos HDR uncompressed 80GB file via wifi .......and take a ethernet cable. And suddenly ..... it works. And that is just because all your walls or ceilings in your home are made from reinforced concrete and your wifi signal cannot get through or is weak as hell.

    And like chewitt said bad PSUs, and cables are a really great issue. I bought lots of HDMI cables and 80 percent of them were not working properly. 1080p was working properly, 4k content was a bad slide show or not working at all. Especially the micro-hdmi adapters at the end of a normal hdmi cable are really great s***.

    The little things can kill you .....

    But after all ..... when you except the challenge ..... it will work. The guys here do a great job and are highly motivated. And when it is not working now, it will get fixed and will work tomorrow or in a week. Just stay tuned.

    My way was a very long way with the RPI4 and libreelec. But now it works. I have 2 55" TVs from Sony with a RPI 4. All working flawlessly with 4K content with HDR. One of my old RPI3+ is working with libreelec as a audio library.

    And ..... oh ..... btw ..... my home cinema ..... 7.0.4 .... Denon 6400H .... Sony X-800 .... BenQ W-2000 (will be changed in december 2021)

    The RPI4 in combination with libreelec is great after all. It was a long way but now it serves my needs......

    And perhaps we should start a thread of other great installations where libreelec is working.

    so long .... have fun ... don't give up ..... and always remember .... as long as you are not crying, it is still your first try

    Hi dippes,

    I dumped them all and bought the original 'Micro HDMI to Standard HDMI (A/M) Cable' recommended by the Rasperry Pi Foundation.

    And now it works perfectly.

    Buy a Micro HDMI to Standard HDMI (A/M) Cable – Raspberry Pi
    The official Raspberry Pi micro HDMI to HDMI (A/M) cable designed for the Raspberry Pi 4 computer
    www.raspberrypi.com
    offizielles Raspberry Pi 4 Micro HDMI Kabel, schwarz, 1,0m
    Dieses offizielle HDMI-Kabel ist für den Einsatz mit dem Raspberry Pi 4 vorgesehen. Es wurde für optimale Leistung und Funktionalität…
    www.berrybase.de
    offizielles Raspberry Pi 4 Micro HDMI Kabel, weiss, 1,0m
    Dieses offizielle HDMI-Kabel ist für den Einsatz mit dem Raspberry Pi 4 vorgesehen. Es wurde für optimale Leistung und Funktionalität…
    www.berrybase.de

    Sorry for the german webshop links, but it is shop where I bought them.