Posts by noggin

    LE seems to get data for the first frequencies, but afterwards no more data are coming in.

    Maybe undervoltage inside of the receiver?

    Please provide a product link of your DiBkom 7000PC. Does it have an optional PSU, which you can plug in?

    The log indicates a Sony Play TV (sold for PS3 DVB-T reception) which is a dual DVB-T tuner USB DVB-T tuner (not T2, not S/S2 - not sure about DVB-C) and like most USB DVB-T (and T2) tuners is bus-powered with no separate power input option.

    With a decent (i.e. official Pi Foundation) PSU on a Pi it should be fine (I've run like that in the past)

    You usually only see external power inputs on DVB-S/S2 USB DVB tuners because they need additional power to drive an LNB, every DVB-T/T2/C USB tuner I've had since the mid-00s has been bus-powered - and I have a LOT of them...

    I ran 3 x Sony Play TVs for a while on an x86 Debian box to constantly tune all 6 UK national DVB-T muxes with no problems. (They were available for <£10 on eBay at one point - which wasn't bad value for a dual T tuner)

    Next step is to find out if the OP is tuning the right frequencies for their location, and getting services mapped etc.

    I have most models of Pi, a Play TV and some time today - so if the OP posts their exact set-up I can replicate in the UK from a blank uSD card on.

    So Billzilla which city are you in in which country, what model of Pi and what LE build are you running?

    I can see both DVB-T tuners in the TVH web if grabs you posted, but all scans have FAILed - which suggests one of these :

    1. The frequencies being scanned are wrong - or the settings for them like 16QAM vs 64QAM vs QPSK etc. are wrong

    2. The antenna connection isn't working (or an LNA setting isn't being set when it is needed ? Some DVB-T tuners have a Low Noise Amp option to boost the signal which can be enabled or disabled in the adaptor settings)

    3. The DVB-T tuner isn't being configured properly when it's detected by Linux and the OS thinks it's working when it isn't.

    4. The DVB-T tuner isn't being powered well enough by the Pi.

    The tuner worked fine for years before with the old box running on LE.
    It's apparently a DiBcom 7000PC unit.
    I have no idea what any of the details are of the TV transmissions around here sorry.

    I think some Dibcom modules need additional firmware in some installs. I don't know if LE ships with it.

    If you tell us the precise model of tuner (not just the chipset) - we may be able to assist.

    Also a log and the output of

    Code
    dmesg | grep dvb 

    via SSH might be helpful.

    One other thing to be aware of is that some USB DVB-T/T2 tuners need specific firmware to be installed even if their chipset drivers are in the Linux kernel. Though in those cases they usually don't show up in TVH.

    What tuner are you using?

    The pre-set muxes in TVH aren't always right - have you checked that the frequencies and modulation parameters that are pre-populated actually match your local transmitter as it currently is?

    These days I usually manually add my local mux frequencies to keep things simple. (I know the UK Crystal Palace transmitter frequencies off by heart now...)


    Can you play HD Audio (i.e. Dolby True HD, DTS HD MA/HRA) with this set-up (I'm wondering if the TV-only EDID you are using doesn't have flags for the AVR-supported audio that the TV doesn't support ? Or it could be that with modern TVs they do flag support for this because eARC lets them pass it through?)

    Nope .. at least not one affecting the 40K+ RPi5 users we have (else there'd be more folks showing up with issues).

    All the error messages flagged above are normal/harmless, and show it setting an HDR colourspace and 12-bit output. The RPi side appears to be doing everything correctly. I think the solution lies in AVR and/or TV settings, or port combinations.

    My guess is that it's something related to the Pi and AVR combo - other 4:2:2 2160p UHD HDR sources work OK - but the Pi 5 (and in some situations Pi 4) don't. There's a similar - though not neccessarily related thread here :

    tomstephens89
    December 29, 2023 at 1:36 PM

    If I get time I'll try to document my experiences with an LG C3 OLED and a Denon AVR-X2800H (4K/8K compatible AVR) with a Pi 4B and a Pi 5 on both the 4K and 8K AVR inputs (8K = HDMI 2.1 - so may have some other differences with 4K/UHD1 sources)

    Thanks for that input noggin .

    In my case, I already tried to switch between 4K standard, 4K enhanced, 8K standard and 8K enhanced modes on that HDMI port. Nothing changed according to that issue.

    I have enabled 8K enhanced mode on all ports by default as the same limitations you described counts also for VRR support: Even when the TV's resolution capability is limited to 4K, to make VRR work on Onkyo receivers, in some circumstances 8K Enhanced mode has to be set for that specific HDMI port to make VRR work flawlessly.

    Yes - 8K Enhanced is probably code for HDMI 2.1 support - and VRR was added with HDMI 2.1 (My Denon, annoyingly, doesn't support VRR)

    It also says traditional hdr false , same as on the Raspi 5 debug logs, but HDR works in this case!

    If I recall correctly the 'Traditional HDR' EOTF which is an EDID EOTF option is not supported by (m)any UHD HDR TVs - it's an old and deprecated HDR EOTF that has been replaced by HDR10 (aka ST.2084 PQ) and HLG (aka ARIB STD-B67). ('Traditional HDR', I believe, basically uses standard SDR Power Law Gamma but pushes it into the HDR range)

    (EOTF = Electro Optical Transfer Function - i.e. how video levels are mapped to screen pixel brightness levels)


    Then configure Deep Colour ON, adjust refresh ON, ensure no 4096 modes and 3840@60/59.94/50/30/29.97/25/24/23.98 are in the list, reboot for clean logs, then share a debug log showing something with HDR content.

    NB Deep Colour isn't always the term used to describe 4:2:2 12-bit 2160p support - it's often called 'Enhanced HDMI' or 'Enhanced 4:2:2 HDMI' on AVRs and TVs (and you often need to enable it on both - and on some TVs it's only available on some, but not all, of the HDMI inputs. My previous Sony Bravia only supported it on HDMI 2 and 3 - and it was still disabled by default, HDMI 1 and 4 were not able to accept that input format. My Denon AVR required it to be enabled too).

    However the Pi 4B and the Pi 5 have the same limitations (i.e. they don't support 4:2:0 output - which is all some UHD HDR TVs accept at 50Hz and above UHD resolutions)


    NB There are a number of reports of Pi5 models not playing nicely with Denon AVRs with UHD modes >30Hz. Some set-ups only work on the AVR's HDMI 2.1-enabled 8K HDMI inputs (even though the Pi isn't running 8K)

    thanks

    On the settings there is a resolution option and then max ui res. Whats the difference? I assumed the resolution option is only for UI anyway or is that for videos also?

    If you don't have whitelisting of different resolutions enabled - then Kodi will run at a fixed output resolution (with only frame rates optionally changing if you have the Player setting enabled to change refresh rate on Start or Start/Stop etc.)

    The UI resolution setting allows you - I believe - to run the UI at a lower resolution than the output.

    So you could run with permanent 2160p output - with frame rate (but not resolution) switching for 23.976/24/50/59.94/60 etc., with UHD/4K video played at UHD, and other content upscaled to UHD by Kodi, but with the Kodi UI running at 1080p resolution (upscaled to 2160p)


    If you whitelist 2160p, 1080p, 720p etc. resolution output modes at various framerates - then Kodi will switch to 1080p output when playing 1080p content, 720p when playing 720p content etc. However this will only happen if you have whitelisted suitable modes.

    All channels on Freesat devices have OpenSky listed as epg source - none of them mention freesat as source, even though this is the predominant mux I schedule (11425H). I will experiment by removing the sky collector on my docker - but suspect I will have missing data for some channels.

    I just use the Open TV Sky UK EPG collector on my current main recording instance - which is using 4 tuners of an 8 tuner SAT>IP server, and that instance also has Freeview enabled for a Silicon Dust Quad DVB-T/T2 tuner. I have used the Freesat EPG source in the past - but my current set-up has been using Sky EPG data since I started from scratch. On a previous install I had some issues with missing EPG data from the Freesat EPG after a while, which is why I re-started from scratch with a new install running with the Sky EPG (This main TV Headend recording server is running on a Debian OS with OpenMediaVault on an cheap Celeron x86 box with an 8TB USB 3 hard drive connected. However I also have a pair of Pi 4s running Raspberry Pi OS that are able to use other tuners on the same DVB-T/T2 and S/S2 network tuners - and both are running fine).

    I use the BSkyB Bouquet 5 - HD England : London to allocate logical/local channel numbers from the Sky EPG.

    I only have the PSB3 mux in my set-up for Freeview (I sometimes want to record both Freeview HD and Freesat HD variants of the same broadcast) currently - and the EPG source entries for that, like yours, are blank.

    I've manually renumbered the Freeview HD channel numbers to the 1xxx range and renamed them to have DVB-T2 in their titles so I can explicitly schedule DVB-T2 recordings.

    I have no obviously missing EPG data - though I used to suffer from missing channel listings data occasionally (usually when they had changed transponder)

    I was not totally sure of the precedence of collector that should be set to keep the latest epg and if one will totally overwrite the information collected by another or just update it? If you understand what I mean? So if I have collected the 7 day epg with Freesat, then a later run collects it with Open Sky, does that Sky collection totally overwrite the Freesat collection or just fill in the gaps? I only have the Sky one enabled as well as the Freesat as I find info from some channels will be missing without it.

    I've wondered about this as sometimes I get series/episode info in the TVH gui then at a later point I don't so I have suspected if one collector has this info it could be being overwritten by the one that doesn't.

    I would only run Sky or Freesat EPG collectors - not both - or if you do have both - chose one EPG source per channel.


    You misunderstand me - I use the accurate recording option of 'Use EPG Running State' in the Recording Config - which uses the triggers for Rec start and stop in the EITpf DVB data.

    I have used TV Headend for 10+ years and never touched the cron settings - they're all on the defaults. The defaults have always downloaded the Freeview/Freeview HD and Freesat or Sky EPGs OK for me - though I've not got recordings regularly set for shows that are likely to be disrupted by sport (like the BBC Ten O'Clock News for instance)

    Wimbledon is going to be an issue as shows switch channel and the EPG EITpf stuff doesn't cope with that (Freeview+ and Sky+ also struggle with channel switches for the same reason) I think that's a known issue. AutoRecs might work if the EPG is updated but I don't think you can run an EPG update every minute to catch those very last minute EPG changes (as opposed to EITpf changes) - but Wimbledon is a known issue.

    However football delays and overruns like the Eurovision Song Contest are often handled OK from memory.

    The thinking here is that maybe the EIT Now/Next might update to cover programme overruns while recording. It doesn't seem to work like that though from what I have seen. I know there is epg running state in recording config, but I don't trust broadcasters to use that properly. This dates back to my experience with a VHS recorder (in the1990's) which had PDC (Programme delivery control). This was never implemented correctly and it often cut off the very beginning or end of a programme, which defeats the purpose of it.

    The main BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 channels - all played out by Red Bee Media - do correctly update the present/following (aka EITpf 'Now/Next') data that drives accurate recording in TV Headend on Sky, Freesat and Freeview platforms. (Virgin's platform doesn't support it).

    For BBC channels the EITpf accurate recording triggers follow the same rules as the old VHS PDC used to, and is updated to start recording on the BBC ident before the show (so any content warnings are recorded), and to record the item in the junction after the show too (such as a pointer to the BBC's Action Line support service if the show has contained content that could trigger some people to seek support - such as domestic abuse, addiction portrayals etc.)

    It works pretty well in my experience - though for non-Red Bee Channels it's a bit more hit and miss - though most of them are clock-time linked anyway (Talking Pictures isn't)

    I've seen these too. The only reason I can assume this is done is to avoid the "Green and Purple" issue when playing DV Profile 5 files on non-DV hardware but still get DV on licensed hardrware. This exact issue crops up with the Pi as well since its not licensed for DV.

    Yes - though in effect you're watching a YCrCb PQ PQ10 (i.e. HDR10/10+ but ignoring the metadata) stream with DV Metadata RPUs from an ICtCp DV Profile 5 stream grafted in to create a fake Hybrid DV stream (like a UHD BD with the MEL/FEL ignored).

    There's no guarantee that the RPUs are correct for the PQ10 output stream (they are designed for a render in a different colour space - and there's no guarantee the HDR10/HDR10+ render will be changed correctly by metadata designed for a different output colour space) - so although the Dolby Vision light might come on - there's no guarantee you're seeing any improvement over the static HDR10 or dynamic HDR10+ metadata - and in fact you might be seeing something worse - but hey, the DV logo has appeared...


    Interesting you posted this when you did, I notice that they have released their Omega Stable build today which seems to add a few more options:

    "Dolby Vision will be supported on Amlogic-ne and Amlogic-ng with Kodi Omega on certain Amlogic devices like Homatics/Dune R 4K Plus, RockTek G2 or Nokia 8010. Other devices on Amlogic-ng like Ugoos AM6+ or Minix NEO U22-XJ (Max) equiped with S922X-J will support Dolby Vision with profile 7 FEL as well."

    (Quoting from their release notes)

    Seems like DV is a high priority featureset for CoreELEC. But their target market seems to be limited to Amlogic only, so I guess it makes sense for them as they are not putting in development effort on other platforms.

    CoreElec's DV support (at least in the -ne branch) requires an Android box and Android OS that already has DV support - as it uses the Android DV code in the Android install (which has to remain on the eMMC storage) on-the-fly called from the CoreElec code. CoreElec itself doesn't do the DV decoding - it relies on the Android code (which it doesn't redistribute)

    The two builds of CoreElec for the two supported platforms have differing support for dual layer decoding - the -ne is single layer, the -ng is dual layer, and they run on different platforms. This limitation is apparently an AMLogic SDK thing - as the dual-layer decode on the -ne platform-supported devices is currently broken?

    If the OP doesn't have a USB nvME interface then presumably you could boot into Raspberry OS from a uSD card or USB stick and then write the LibreElec image to the PCI-E connected NVMe drive from within Raspberry Pi OS assuming the Raspberry Pi OS 'sees' it. Once you make sure the EPROM bootloader has the PCI-E NVMe as a boot option you can then reboot to LE without the uSD or USB device installed on the Pi?


    I've not use LibreElec on a PCI-E NVMe Pi 5 - but that's how I installed Raspberry Pi OS and Ubuntu on two different Pi 5s with NVMe HATs.

    Yes - one thing to be aware of and which I should have mentioned is that on many TVs (including my LG OLED and previous Sony FALD LCD) SDR, HDR10/HDR10+/HLG and Dolby Vision sources will often trigger separate display settings for each type of source - plus you wouldn't expect Dolby Vision and HDR10 versions of the same drama to look identical. (The Pi 5 doesn't do Dolby Vision). You often have far less control of settings on Dolby Vision content for instance.

    There are also some dodgy, pirated, 'Hybrid' versions of dramas kicking around apparently. These take a downloaded HDR10 stream from an OTT streaming service, but then graft on Dolby Vision Metadata RPUs from a separate Dolby Vision native download of the same show from that service, to create a file that plays back as HDR10 on non-DV-compatible devices, but will trigger Dolby Vision logos on some Dolby Vision replay solutions (though the RPUs aren't meant for the YCbCr HDR10 stream and instead designed for an ICtCp encoded stream...)

    The TV is not creating the same level of brightness/saturation/color on sdr content when that is displayed with hdr as it most likely supports only a low level hdr on sdr content (mostly happens on lcd/led screens, oleds are far better to get a good sdr on hdr picture).

    So the problem with the washed out colors is normal and might be lessend by adjusting stuff like brightness when it is displayed (but would also affect hdr as you change it in that mode).

    You might search the net if people might have posted settings guides for that TV which you might like to try.


    BTW. Switching the color range to full was needed as hdr formats like dolby vision only work with the enhanced color space.

    Not sure what you are trying to say here. SDR is SDR - sure you can chose to process it and push it into the HDR range - and many people do. This will make the picture look bright - but it will then mean an SDR signal will be displayed far brighter than the SDR portion of an HDR10/PQ signal.

    PQ ST.2084 HDR (i.e. HDR10) is based on an 'absolute' HDR standard that maps specific video levels to absolute pixel light output - so a video level that deliever 100 nits is 100 nits on any ST.2084 PQ (aka HDR10) display unless that display is not following the ST.2084 PQ curve and is being overridden. Displays differ in their max brightness - and in those casese the PQ curve is tone-mapped to mitigate the max brightness limitations, and obviously there are better and worse performers at black level.

    However 100 nits is a 100 nits (and is represented by 51.9% of full-range in a PQ ST.2084 signal) - any display correctly displaying the SDR portion of an HDR signal will deliver this 51.9% signal as 100 nits light level whatever the screen tech is if it is correctly meeting the standard PQ specs.

    Some TVs will use processing that means they no longer track the PQ/ST.2084 curve correctly to let you make the picture in HDR brighter or darker - some in their 'Cinema' or 'Movie' modes won't.

    I recently switched from a Sony FALD LCD to an LG C3 OLED with both correctly calibrated and the subjective performance was similar for both SDR and HDR content in picture brightness terms watching the same content - though the OLED clearly did better with blacks and there was no FALD backlight booming, and the OLED overall delivers a nice clean picture.

    This is a really good primer on HDR PQ and HLG and SDR and explains a lot about why HDR can sometimes appear 'dark'. It's written by a former colleague who is an expert on both display calibration and motion picture colour science.

    PQ HDR & HLG
    Understanding PQ HDR and HLG
    www.lightillusion.com

    AIUI HDR10 may use 1-1023 rather than 64-940 (aka 16-235 in 8-bit) level space - which is why leaving a TV on Automatic rather than Full or Limited may make the most sense.

    I have set up an external (powered) HDD to replace the usb flash stick and the latest recording had no problems. I shall set up some more to see how it goes. I will also set up a swap file on that now. The Rpi power is the official one to be used (from PiHut) and I have the TVHat case and a flirc. I have always only used the Freeview epg module, disabling the others.

    If you have the "Over the air : UK : Freeview" EPG enabled then you should get clear EPG data for the HD channels.

    The Kodi setting for Limited doesn't do what you think it does I'm afraid. It's been confusing for years.

    The Kodi tick box for Limited Range option is only useful when your OS is using Full range output (and would map black to 0 and white to 255) but you want to force Limited Range output (with black at 16 and white at 235) because you're feeding a display that won't accept Full range output (or you want to preserve <16 and >235 content and/or avoid the banding that rescaling can cause). This was a useful thing with some Intel GPUs a long time ago...

    HDMI InfoFrames these days mean this is less useful than it might seem (as InfoFrames are now routinely used to flag Full or Limited range from source to display). If your OS is already set-up for Limited output then you get grey blacks and dim whites if you also tick the Limited option within Kodi, as you will if your TV is in Full range mode or your OS is in full range mode and TV automatically detects this nd you select Limited in Kodi.

    For a Raspberry Pi, in my experience with Sony and LG TVs, you should leave the Kodi settings on default and your TV Full/Limited range settings on Automatic if you can (so InfoFrames are followed correctlu) If not I'd use Limited (as my TV HDMI setting) as my starting point - as that's the near-universal standard for HDMI video devices.

    I've never had to alter my Kodi settings or TV settings on a Pi 3/4/5 running LibreElec to get correct black and white levels. Most HDMI systems default to 'Limited' or 'Video/Broadcast' levels (16-235/64-940) as that is what broadcast video production and distribution uses (other than Dolby Vision ICtCp stuff). If you remap Video/Limited to Full you can clip <16 Blacker-than-Black (not usually an issue - though it makes PLUGE tricky to use) and >235 Whiter-than-white (more of an issue as 100-109% are valid video levels - particularly in broadcast TV use)

    From your posts above

    TV: Limited
    Kodi: Full (which doesn't actually mean the Pi 5 is using Full range - it just means Kodi isn't compensating for a Full range output to a Limited display...)
    Gui looks the most natural... deepest blue colors from Estuary. HDR content is dark, normal content is normal.

    If the Pi5 is correctly configured for Limited output automatically at an OS level (which happens pretty much all the time on a modern HDMI-connected display) - you shouldn't need to select Limited in Kodi's settings.

    Is what I would expect to be normal. When you say HDR is dark are you objectively comparing it with the same UHD HDR content via a different player route (i.e. comparing a UHD HDR BD player output vs Kod playing a UHD BD rip of the same disc on the same display) or just making a subjective comment (or worse comparing with an HD SDR version of the same content).

    It's normal for HDR versions of movies to appear darker in PQ (i.e. HDR10) HDR than the same movie release in HD SDR (say comparing a UHD HDR BD with an HD SDR BD) because HDR PQ10 is based on SDR content brightness being at 100nits max (with HDR highlights etc. going >100 nits), whereas most people watch SDR content at display settings brighter than this (so the SDR content often hits 200 nits or more), and thus when PQ content keeps the SDR range of an HDR signal at 100nits 'it looks dark' is often the comment you hear (as people are watching SDR content pushed into the HDR range of their displays - as 100 nits is quite dark for normal viewing conditions).

    I guess I'm asking whether you are saying for certain that HDR content is definitely incorrectly replayed - or you just feel it's too dark?


    ***EDIT - It may be best to leave your TV on Automatic rather than fixing it at Full or Limited - as regular SDR content is almost always 16-235/64-940 video/limited levels - as is HLG HDR (as used by services like BBC iPlayer). However PQ/ST.2084/HDR10 stuff may be using 1-1023/1-254 full range instead and flagging accordingly using HDMI Infoframes ***