USB DAC Native DSD Support

    Quote from NSXD

    Is MPD working on a standalone Tablet PC without further hardware?

    MPD is an add-on for LE. If you can install LE on that tablet, you can also install the add-on.

    Which tablet do you want to use, and what do you want to achieve on it?

    Quote from Da Flex

    MPD is an add-on for LE. If you can install LE on that tablet, you can also install the add-on.

    I know that MPD can be installed as add-on but as far as I understand it is a server/client application. Is server and client running on the same device? Or how is the user achieving its DSD Playback.

    I read tht Volumio is using MPD for its DSD Playback. Gave it a try one week ago. GUI and functionality is somewhat simple but DSD is indeed working without further doing.

    Quote from Da Flex

    Which tablet do you want to use, and what do you want to achieve on it?

    It shall become mainly a music media center. The other things Kodi has to offer in addition are nice & usable too. Otherwise I wouldn't waste so much time on that topic.

    I don't use MPD, so other people may have detailed instructions.

    From what I was reading about MPD, your dream setup could be this:

    • MPD server/client on the same LE machine (with DAC/speakers connected)
    • RC app (Yatse, Rigelian etc.) on your phone/tablet to control MPD

    I think the dream setup is to use Kodi and just have DSD work. LE kernels support the higher bitrates needed (hence MPD can be a solution for some) but Kodi has no handling for media above 192k that I can see (perhaps that's where HDMI maxes out?) so the ALSA audio sink code probably needs to evolve a little. And since Kodi is ultimately a big fancy wrapper around ffmpeg some work will be needed there too - and ffmpeg being the fun place to submit patches, that might take a while. As always in the Kodi world, it requires someone with the tryptych of patience, coding skills, and the initiative to do the work.

    Quote from Da Flex

    Low-latency devices are used by musicians and audiophile people. The point is "low-latency", not the group of customers.

    As you can read in the second link of post #8, LE supports frequencies above 384kHz.

    Please learn the concept of an ASIO driver, and whats the challenge of writing low-latency code. Then you'll understand.

    Totally get the need for low-latency for music production (where you're often recording and playing simultaneously and need everything to stay in-sync) - I work in broadcast for my day job so totally understand the challenges of low-latency and the need for it in a production context.

    However I'm slightly puzzled by the need for the low-latency (and thus drivers that support it) in a purely playback setting where you just hit play and listen? Having some latency between hitting play and the music starting could be annoying (and if it's excessive and not accommodated for gapless playback I get that could be annoying) - but unless low-latency has another aspect I'm missing I'm not sure I see the need?

    Isn't ASIO specifically a Windows thing - not sure I get how it's related to Linux? Or am I missing something?

    Quote from noggin

    Isn't ASIO specifically a Windows thing - not sure I get how it's related to Linux? Or am I missing something?

    ASIO is Windows only. There's no direct equivalent to ASIO on Linux (only good-old ALSA) but I do see folks in the RPi audio distro ecosystem using RT (real-time) kernels because that's supposed to be better juju for your listening experience. Magic :)

    Quote from noggin

    Isn't ASIO specifically a Windows thing - not sure I get how it's related to Linux? Or am I missing something?

    ASIO also works on Linux, but with restricted licensing:

    Audacity ASIO Audio Interface

    I also don't get the reason of low-latency for music playback:

    • audio doesn't has to be in-sync with video
    • there is no low-latency input/output relation (musician setup: playing keyboard, and hearing the result in time)

    As mentioned a couple of times, I think the proprietary ASIO driver is the problem. There is no need for ASIO on music playback. So I suggest using a DAC without ASIO. This one should work on Linux:

    Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M

    Quote from chewitt

    ASIO is Windows only. There's no direct equivalent to ASIO on Linux (only good-old ALSA) but I do see folks in the RPi audio distro ecosystem using RT (real-time) kernels because that's supposed to be better juju for your listening experience. Magic :)

    As far as I understand ALSA already supports the alternate setting to playback native DSD on XMOS based devices. In Windows this necessary feature is supported by the ASIO driver provided by the manufacturer.

    Please read: https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd

    Quote from Da Flex

    As mentioned a couple of times, I think the proprietary ASIO driver is the problem. There is no need for ASIO on music playback. So I suggest using a DAC without ASIO. This one should work on Linux:

    Please read: https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd

    ALSA seems to be able to do what the Windwos ASIO driver is doing (supporting an alternate setting on the XMOS USB Controller)

    Quote from noggin

    Totally get the need for low-latency for music production (where you're often recording and playing simultaneously and need everything to stay in-sync) - I work in broadcast for my day job so totally understand the challenges of low-latency and the need for it in a production context.

    However I'm slightly puzzled by the need for the low-latency (and thus drivers that support it) in a purely playback setting where you just hit play and listen? Having some latency between hitting play and the music starting could be annoying (and if it's excessive and not accommodated for gapless playback I get that could be annoying) - but unless low-latency has another aspect I'm missing I'm not sure I see the need?

    Isn't ASIO specifically a Windows thing - not sure I get how it's related to Linux? Or am I missing something?

    I agree with you.

    Edited once, last by NSXD (June 29, 2024 at 6:15 PM).

    Quote from NSXD

    ALSA seems to be able to do what the Windwos ASIO driver is doing (supporting an alternate setting on the XMOS USB Controller)

    Yes. The ALSA part of the Linux kernel can handle standard ASIO. That's why my Behringer UMC22 is working.

    Quote from Da Flex

    Yes. The ALSA part of the Linux kernel can handle standard ASIO. That's why my Behringer UMC22 is working.

    I don't think that all the fuss is about ASIO it self.

    My guess is that the special ASIO Driver chosen for Windows is only serving as a means to an end. In other words, to activate this alternate setting provided by XMOS.

    Since is is stated that this feature "Will be generally available with the next ALSA release (1.0.29)" it makes no sense to talk about ASIO and its special Windows driver.

    https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd states clearly that with that alternate setting provided by ALSA release (1.0.29) the things are are working out.

    Quote from Da Flex

    If you don't need ASIO, stay away from it. In addition to the above points (#28), LE is no low-latency OS, so it makes zero sense.

    You need to avoid personal pronouns in such kind of discussions. We don't talking about personal preferences but about a broader class of devices, which are obviouly out of focus and therefore ignored.

    Kodi has its origins in playing of all sorts video-oriented content. That is clear and led to many uselul things like a sophisticaed and well implemented menu navigation.

    But maybe its time to take a closer look on the audio part.

    Quote from NSXD

    I don't think that all the fuss is about ASIO it self.

    My guess is that the special ASIO Driver chosen for Windows is only serving as a means to an end. In other words, to activate this alternate setting provided by XMOS.

    Since is is stated that this feature "Will be generally available with the next ALSA release (1.0.29)" it makes no sense to talk about ASIO and its special Windows driver.

    https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd states clearly that with that alternate setting provided by ALSA release (1.0.29) the things are are working out.

    You keep referring to lintweakers github page, are you aware that the info there is a decade old?
    Also ALSA 1.0.29 was released in 2015.

    Quote from NSXD

    You need to avoid personal pronouns in such kind of discussions. We don't talking about personal preferences but about a broader class of devices, which are obviouly out of focus and therefore ignored.

    Kodi has its origins in playing of all sorts video-oriented content. That is clear and led to many uselul things like a sophisticaed and well implemented menu navigation.

    But maybe its time to take a closer look on the audio part.

    A/V is in-sync on Kodi, because it's played on the same stream, and gets buffered without low-latency conditions. So I don't talk about personal pronouns, but about the concept of Kodi. ASIO breaks that concept, because it gives audio highest priority.