RPi 4 + Denon AVR - No Signal until source switch

    Similar to andirama , my issue appears fixed once I lowered the refresh rate to 30hz OR exclusively use the AUX1 or AUX2 ports.


    If the resolution is set to 3840x2160@60hz, the Pi works fine if booted while connected to any of the Denon sources (CBL/Sat, Media Player, Blu Ray, Game, AUX1, AUX2) until the Denon is powered off. The only sources that work with the Pi when the Denon is powered back on are AUX1 and AUX2. As far as I can tell, there is nothing specific about the AUX1 or AUX2 ports on my specific x3800 Denon model and furthermore all of the ports work as expected when a Windows 11 PC is connected using the exact same cable on those sources and even at a higher refresh rate 3840x2160@120hz.


    A simple test I found is that if I boot up the Pi and get audio/video via any source, I can unplug the Pi from that source and re-plug it into the same source or any other source and it will not give audio/video unless I plug it into AUX1 or AUX2. Just for sake of example:

    Boot from Game = works fine

    Unplug from Game and re-plug into Game = no signal

    Move cable from Game to Blu Ray = no signal

    Move from Blu Ray to AUX1 = works fine

    Move from AUX1 to Game = no signal


    Once I drop the refresh rate to 30hz, it works fine across the board and appears to work fine after the Denon is powered off / powered on or I can leave it at 60hz if I use one of the AUX1 or AUX2 ports. I need to give it some time to see if it is permanent but the above testing is 100% repeatable on my unit.


    One more note for the rest of you Denon owners, I did get bitten by the default "Enhanced" setting for Video which prevented me from getting to 4k@120hz on my Windows machine until I set it to 8k Enhanced. It might not have anything to do with this but it definitely restricts your input even if it is capable

    None of the previous settings have worked for me. Infact they have made it worse.

    What video mode should I be setting my Denon to. Enhanced etc….?

    I might try 30fps for the UI and see if that works like you say.

    Here is my current setup - In an attempt to keep as few variables as possible, I am NOT using any cmdline.txt or the get-edid modifications.

    I am using the "Media Player" input on the Denon with these relevant settings:

    Code
    Output Settings 
Video Mode: Auto
HDMI Upscaler: Off

4K/8K Signal Format
Media Player: 8K Enhanced

HDCP Setup
Media Player: Auto

    Within Kodi:

    Code
    Resolution: 3840x2160p
Refresh Rate: 30
Blank other displays: Off
Delay after change of refresh: Off
GUI limit: 1080
Use limited range 16-235: Off

    Many thanks to andirama who found me in another thread, and pointed me here. Changing the UI refresh rate to 30Hz (1080p) did the trick for me too. 👍

    [RPi5.arm, LibreElec v11.0.5, Denon X3300W AVR]

    Edited once, last by jhspyhard (January 30, 2024 at 2:55 AM).

    Quote from tomstephens89

    None of the previous settings have worked for me. Infact they have made it worse.

    What video mode should I be setting my Denon to. Enhanced etc….?

    I might try 30fps for the UI and see if that works like you say.

    for my Setup this works fine:
    Denon AVR x3800H / 2800HDAB set to:
    - HDMI-Control: ON, everything else: OFF
    - 4k/8k-Signal Format: Extended
    - HDCP: all set to 2.3
    - HDMI-Input of Pi4 and Pi5: doesnt matter (actual Pi5 is on MediaPlay, Pi4 on Aux1)

    Pi4 and Pi5 set to:
    - CEC-Adapter: Disabled
    - Resolution: 3840x2160 (and 4096x2160p), 30fps
    - max-Gui-Resolution: 1080

    I would run the Kodi desktop/GUI at 1080@60 not 4K@30. Use the mode whitelist to permit switching to 4K for media playback when needed but otherwise allow the TV to scale the 1080p skin and 1080p GUI to the panel 4K native resolution using it's native scaling capabilities that do a better job than Kodi and have no load impact on the HTPC device.

    NB: The only hardware that doesn't struggle with 4K desktop output is high(er) end Intel CPUs. All ARM boards run the GUI best at 1080p.

    Quote from chewitt

    I would run the Kodi desktop/GUI at 1080@60 not 4K@30. Use the mode whitelist to permit switching to 4K for media playback when needed but otherwise allow the TV to scale the 1080p skin and 1080p GUI to the panel 4K native resolution using it's native scaling capabilities that do a better job than Kodi and have no load impact on the HTPC device.

    NB: The only hardware that doesn't struggle with 4K desktop output is high(er) end Intel CPUs. All ARM boards run the GUI best at 1080p.

    Yes - or if you're in Europe and watch European DVDs, Live/Recorded TV, or European VoD services (like BBC iPlayer etc.) which are all 25/50fps and have frame rate matching enabled, then a default GUI rendered in 1080 at 50Hz makes sense as it avoids constant 'HDMI bonks' as your TV switches from 60Hz to 50Hz etc.

    Edited once, last by noggin (January 30, 2024 at 8:03 AM).

    Quote from chewitt

    I would run the Kodi desktop/GUI at 1080@60 not 4K@30. Use the mode whitelist to permit switching to 4K for media playback when needed but otherwise allow the TV to scale the 1080p skin and 1080p GUI to the panel 4K native resolution using it's native scaling capabilities that do a better job than Kodi and have no load impact on the HTPC device.

    NB: The only hardware that doesn't struggle with 4K desktop output is high(er) end Intel CPUs. All ARM boards run the GUI best at 1080p.

    Agree thats why we need this fixed so that we dont need to keep UI in 4k 30 just to avoid bug

    Does the GUI resolution limit not achieve this even when the output is set to 4K?


    I have just tested this at 30FPS and confirm the issue no longer occurs so this is specific to 60FPS output.

    Quote from tomstephens89

    Does the GUI resolution limit not achieve this even when the output is set to 4K?


    I have just tested this at 30FPS and confirm the issue no longer occurs so this is specific to 60FPS output.

    Following chewitt's advice, I configured my setup as follows - hopefully anyone with more experience can correct anything that is non-optimal.

    System Settings:
    Resolution: 1920x1080p
    Refresh rate: 60hz
    GUI Resolution Limit: 1080 (Comment: I still don't understand why this exists since the Resolution is already limiting the GUI while not limiting the video unless you want it *lower* than the Resolution but I still don't understand the use-case as you can just lower the Resolution)


    Player Settings:
    Adjust Display Refresh Rate: On Start/Stop (Comment: If you forget to set this, all of your content will be displayed at the resolution & refresh rate in the System Settings)

    Sync Playback to Display: OFF (Comment: Off is the default but I am calling it out since it will break audio passthrough and since this is largely a Denon thread, I imagine the vast majority of us want the Denon to process audio)


    Lessons learned:

    Adjust display refresh rate on Start means that once you stop the content, your GUI will stay in the same resolution as the content you last started which is undesirable if you play 24hz content, now the entire GUI stays at 24hz

    Adjust display refresh rate on Always means that if you go into the Kodi GUI (not the OSD but things like your Movies menu) you will get hit with a resolution / refresh rate change back to your System Settings. It is not recommended by Kodi and it is definitely jarring so I don't recommend either.

    Adjust display refresh rate on Start/Stop is really best of all worlds IMHO. Your display will get synced to your content's resolution / refresh rate when you start the content. If you browse Kodi menus while your content is playing, it will stay at the same resolution / refresh rate which CAN appear a bit sluggish since you'll probably be around 24hz instead of 60hz but it leagues better than the harsh switch of resolution/refresh rate. Once you stop the content, you'll be back to your System Settings. **This setting could actually bite us Denon owners due to the original bug this thread is about - if you start 4k/60hz content, pause the content, then turn off the Denon, that experience should be effectively the same as having your system settings display and refresh at 4k/60hz since once you turn the Denon back on it will try to display 4k/60hz of the paused content.

    You might need to do specific whitelisting depending on your content but I left this off and Kodi switches as needed. If I run into content that fails or behaves weird then I may have to revisit but until then I am leaving unconfigured.

    Delay after Change of Refresh Rate: This is one that I am currently playing with to find optimal settings but since there is a delay when the resolution / refresh rate is changed such as when starting 4k/24hz content, this setting will delay the start of the media so it isn't "playing" in the background before your TV/Sound is able to play anything. The delay will be unique to all of our equipment stacks but it is probably something you'll want to play with to find your own best delay.

    Yes this is optimal but dont you still have the issue with the AVR showing no display until you switch back and forth on the inputs?

    On my Pi 5 and Denon AVR even on 1080p 60hz I get the issue.

    The temporary workaround was switching refresh rate to 30hz.

    Quote from Nekromantik

    Yes this is optimal but dont you still have the issue with the AVR showing no display until you switch back and forth on the inputs?

    On my Pi 5 and Denon AVR even on 1080p 60hz I get the issue.

    The temporary workaround was switching refresh rate to 30hz.

    My problem was never solved by switching inputs; I had to reboot the Pi or use AUX1/AUX2 only.

    I did some more testing and was able to get it to exhibit the old behavior of "no signal" when starting a 4k/24 movie. This was not repeatable and I was actually able to stop the content from my remote (blindly), which then made the kodi interface visible again and starting the exact same content again worked fine. Non-repeatable issues... just what everyone likes to have when troubleshooting /s

    pi5 (nightly-20240103-53c34f3) & denon x3800

    my issue is different then

    I turn on my TV which then turns on my AVR and then I have to manually turn on my Pi.

    At which point it shows the boot screen and then before it goes into OS it then shows no signal from my tv until I switch AVR inputs. Only happens on boot or reboot.

    Quote from tomstephens89

    The problem is clearly 60Hz output.

    What could be the reason?


    It’s faultless with 4k and 30hz set. I have adjust display refresh to start stop.

    I bet our Denon-Receivers are the problem.
    I didnt hear so far from other Receiver-Brands with simlilar Problems.

    But who knows.
    In my case an apple-tv-4k +Infuse does display-like a perfect job in 3840x2160@60hz+dv.
    So because of this, its actually also possible the the Pi does something wrong...
    (But with an apple-tv-4k you can actually forget audio-passthrough. Its not possible.
    You only have the option converted everything PCM, stay at DD 5.1 or even Stereo.
    Dolby Atmos works only with content that has E-AC3 with joint Object Coding so far.)

    Staying at 3840x2160@30hz is a valid solution for the problem.
    Changing constantly refresh-rate&resolution if i stay at 1920x1080x30hz is not a solution for me :)
    As there is a better resizing algorithm for the pi5 on the road the better upscaling capability might not be an argument anymore to stay at 1080p and let the receiver/tv rescale.

    After leaving my pi5 in the 1080/60hz resolution but allowing the display rate to adjust to content, I’ve had quite a few occasions where the res/rate adjustment didn’t work and I would get “no signal” on the tv. Stopping the content and restarting it would typically work and I could not reproduce the problem. It happened with 1080 content where the only thing adjusting was refresh.

    The only other item I have to add is that the “No signal” is ended the Denon believes it is sending a signal but the tv doesn’t see one. The denon will literally display a denon logo on the screen if it does not have a signal to display.

    Happy to dump edids or whatever if it could possibly help

    I bet its the raspberry Pi to be honest.... Denon receivers are a long standing top selling AV product. I bet theres far less people forcing 60Hz output on raspberry Pi's than there are Denon users with standard AV equipment.