Posts by jd17

Quote from mmpp

The kernel part is responsible for how that information is transmitted over the HDMI link, and there is most definitely some significant change - in my setup for the better.

"Most definitely" and "significant".
You too are using some strong words to describe this alleged change in picture quality.

This makes me wonder if it is somehow hardware and/or source (video) related.

I am obsessed with picture quality and I see no difference between Jarvis and Krypton to speak of.
But I would still like to understand your position and get to the bottom of this.

I would welcome your help with this...

Can you (both) answer some questions?
1. Is the change in picture quality visible in all content or limited to a certain resolution, codec, container, bit depth etc.?
2. Do you have a S905 or S905X box?
3. Are you outputting YCbCr or RGB?
4. Do you alter the picture in Kodi in any way? Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Color etc.?
5. Hardware or Software acceleration?
6. Do you use refresh rate switching, i.e. are you outputting the video's native framerate?
7. What resolution and refresh rate is your menu set to?

And finally - can you quantify the difference with the help of the Spears&Munsil chroma upsampling pattern?
Look at the pattern in both versions and try to explain where you see a difference - or take a close-up picture.

Thank you!

Quote from kszaq

Have you tried the devel build from 2 days ago?
LibreELEC-S905.arm-8.0-8.0.1-devel-2017-05-05.tar

No, not yet.
I think I can still squeeze that in tonight.

I'll use the full Rogue One remux again and let you know how it goes.

My test with Leia was on an i5-7500 with Intel HD 630.
The monitor does not support 23.976fps though, so the video was played at 60fps.
Maybe this has an impact on the subtitle issue?

I will test this on RPi2 if I have the time.

Yes, I understand.

This is why I mentioned the donor file.
I chose Rogue One, because I saw ~15-20 frame skips when I let the original 36GB file run for 15 minutes.

The first frame skip always occurs when I open PlayerDebug, I did not count that.
The mentioned skip in my report was definitely triggered without any input from me, approx. 3-4 minutes in.

I'm sorry that this is such a drag for you.
I would love to see a usable Krypton, because I like the original Estuary v1 a lot.
But I understand how much pain the AMCodec is for you, so don't let it get in the way of your real life.

Quote from mmpp

Nitpick: These are not "burned in" subtitles, but "forced" ones - they are a separate stream, and get shown by default. "Burned in" is used when they are rendered and made part of the video stream during re-encoding.

OK I understand. I thought it was burned in because there was no way to deactivate the subtitle, but I guess that is kind to the intention of "forced".

Quote

I mentioned the same problem with a different sample here: thread-7559.html

Sorry I missed that - I hope that is not an issue?

Quote

I noticed that custom fonts / unicode characters make the frame drop more apparent. Then again, some super-heavy subtitles with effects and whatnot get rendered just fine. It is a different format (substation alpha, or "ssa") so the reason for the problem here and in my sample might lie in something that is specific to blu-ray subtitles (pgs format, I think)

Yes, PGS is correct - which is a picture based subtitle type.
SSA/ASS and SRT are text-based as far as I know.
[hr]

Quote from kszaq

I have tested the file and can confirm the issue... and that it's also present when using Kodi on Windows, definitely not Amlogic-specific issue! I will see if I can escalate this. If you can reproduce on Windows, you might also want to post a bug report on Kodi forum: Kodi Community Forum - Video Support

I cannot reproduce the issue in Windows.
However, I am using a Leia Alpha in Windows, so it might already be known/fixed in Kodi.
(Kodi 18.0 Alpha1 from 16 April 2017.)

Resolved in:
- 8.0.1k-l
- 8.0.1l
- 8.0.1l-mm
Thanks to afl1 and kszaq!

Videos with a high(ish) bitrate trigger frame skips in Krypton.

Device type:
S905X
Build:
8.0.1j (and previous)
Device:
Mini M8S II 2GB/16GB

How to reproduce:
Play high bitrate video and monitor PlayerDebug for frame skips.

Sample:
view?usp=sharing

Specs from sample video in log:

Quote

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 5 min 0 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 33.8 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 35.5 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.681
Stream size : 1.18 GiB (86%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile : MA / Core
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 5 min 0 s
Bit rate mode : Variable / Constant
Bit rate : 5 275 kb/s / 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels / 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: L R, LFE / Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless / Lossy
Delay relative to video : 3 ms
Stream size : 189 MiB (13%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Display More

Support logs:
Attached.
"Only one" frame was skipped in this 5 minute sample.
However, frame skips seem to occur more frequently on bigger files.
For instance, skips are more common on the 36GB donor file for this sample.

Blu-ray's original forced burned-in subtitles trigger massive frame skips.

Device type:
S905X
Build:
8.0.1j
Device:
Mini M8S II 2GB/16GB

How to reproduce:
Play sample file from Avatar (BD remux) and monitor PlayerDebug for frame skips.

Sample:
view?usp=sharing

Specs from sample video in log:

Quote

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1 min 7 s
Bit rate : 22.4 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Original frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.451
Stream size : 180 MiB (84%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile : MA / Core
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1 min 7 s
Bit rate mode : Variable / Constant
Bit rate : 4 133 kb/s / 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless / Lossy
Stream size : 33.3 MiB (16%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Display More

Support logs:
Attached.
Every new subtitle line triggered one or two frame skips.
I think there also was one skipped frame in the beginning w/o subtitle (see other bug report).

Quote from yatoya

OK, so here's the comparison.

Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Quote from kubrickdave

It also shows my AVR's info menu, confirming 8bit.

But your AVR also shows BT.2020, so wesk05 was wrong about that.

Did you test this with Jarvis too?
Again, I would not be surprised if Jarvis truncated to 8 bit as well, but if so, it does it much better.

The important question is:
Did wesk05 use Jarvis or Krypton to come to this conclusion?

Quote from jd17

This is really weird.
I am not able to reproduce those massive frame skips.
Those occurred after I just updated to j and then rebooted.
Is it possible, that another "clean" reboot is necessary for Kodi to run at it's best?
I know this sounds stupid but I did not change anything else in between these tests...

I am still seeing skipped frames on high bitrate videos now, but those are rare, individual skips, not "bursts" of many skipped frames like it happened initially (screenshot).

OK I just figured this out. Sorry for the confusion.
Those massive frame skip bursts occur in Avatar, whenever subtitles are displayed.
Those are not external or selectable PGS subtitles, but burned-in original BD subtitles in that fancy Avatar font (for foreign language parts).
I will try cut out a sample for you tomorrow kszaq.

Occasional frame skips are independent from that and I will try to find another sample for those too.

Quote from yatoya

The "k" build has a nougat kernel. Picture quality is much better in my opinion.
As a matter of course there must be differences in video processing.

People keep talking about differences in picture quality - I don't get that.
Can you quantify what you mean?
I do not see any difference in picture quality between Jarvis and Krypton (on 8 Bit sources).

...And I am testing with untouched Blu-ray remuxes on a calibrated 65" OLED display...

Can you make comparison screenshots or quantify your statements with the help of the Spears&Munsil chroma upsampling pattern for instance?

Quote from jd17

I just tested 8.0.1j.
Unfortunately I am still seeing massive frame skips, have a look:

The remux in question does not even have a very high average bitrate (23500 kbit/s video + 4100 kbit/s audio = below 30 mbit/s average, peaks maybe at 40 mbit/s), so network speed can hardly be a limitation.
Video only ran for a few minutes.
Again, this plays perfectly in Jarvis. Not a single skip.

This is really weird.
I am not able to reproduce those massive frame skips.
Those occurred after I just updated to j and then rebooted.
Is it possible, that another "clean" reboot is necessary for Kodi to run at it's best?
I know this sounds stupid but I did not change anything else in between these tests...

I am still seeing skipped frames on high bitrate videos now, but those are rare, individual skips, not "bursts" of many skipped frames like it happened initially (screenshot).
[hr]

Quote from dazed

jd17 try MKVToolNix 12.0.0 Download Free - VideoHelp to cut a small sample file

Thank you so much!
I have been using mkvtoolnix for ages but I never knew it could do that!
[hr]

Quote from kubrickdave

I just tried Jarvis on a USB drive and for me 10bit output doesn't work (checked with AVR). This is the last gripe I have with S905X. Can the people, who claim to have it working, provide some details?

I was never 100% sure that Jarvis actually outputs 10 Bit properly.
However, when I look at the usual sample videos, everything looks perfectly fine in Jarvis.
In Krypton on the other hand, color banding is immediately obvious.
For instance in the Samsung HDR Chasing the Light demo...

So if Jarvis is also truncating to 8 Bit, it does a much, much better job at it.
I cannot see the difference between S905X Jarvis 10 Bit playback and my TV's internal media player.

Unfortunately my TV does not tell me if the incoming signal is 8 Bit or 10 Bit...

kszaq:
I cannot post a sample of the files in question - at least I don't know how to.
When I use Avidemux to cut out a sample, HD audio is lost - so the sample is no longer representative.
This is why I can only rely on you testing another similar remux.
This is just untouched video+audio from a Blu-ray muxed into an mkv container.
Basic AVC [email protected].
It does happen on every comparable video with a relatively high bitrate.

I am not blaming you for anything here, I know this is not your fault.
I am simply reporting that I tested your new build and this issue is not fixed.
[hr]

Quote from frequenzy

jd17
is there a LE8 version that you have tested that works?

Not for my S905X box, no.

LE8 has been practically flawless on my RPi2 since long before the first official release.

Thanks for your hard work kszaq.

I just tested 8.0.1j.
Unfortunately I am still seeing massive frame skips, have a look:

The remux in question does not even have a very high average bitrate (23500 kbit/s video + 4100 kbit/s audio = below 30 mbit/s average, peaks maybe at 40 mbit/s), so network speed can hardly be a limitation.
Video only ran for a few minutes.
Again, this plays perfectly in Jarvis. Not a single skip.

There is no need for an update.

7.0.3.012j provides flawless 23.976 fps playback.

Quote from jd17

- High bitrate 1080p videos (e.g. BD remux with DTS-HD MA audio) trigger random frame skips.

Unfortunately there are still some 1080p frame skips in 8.0.1h.
I thought they were gone starting in 8.0.1g, but I tested another remux last night which caused Krypton to skip the occasional frame again (2 within 5 minutes).

Jarvis is just so much more stable in that regard.
For instance, whenever I open the overlay in a video for the first time (just pressing OK in video), Krypton always skips at least one frame.
That does not happen in Jarvis.

There also seems to be a significant input delay (or sluggish reaction time) in videos for remote control commands.

Quote from yatoya

Default setting for 24p is 125 ms

(display has 125 msec latency at 23-24 Hz)
advancedsettings.xml - Official Kodi Wiki

You are quoting an example here, not a default setting.