Posts by ashlar

hadesdevls I tested through USB key. One thing I could suggest: make the options clearer when one boots from it.
I have a dedicated NUC (NUC11TNKI3) for this, so I prepared the key on a different, Windows 10, machine. Once I booted the NUC with usb key inserted, I was trying to understand what the different "Run/Run*/Installer/Live" options meant and it autostarted as Run almost immediately (a few seconds, really). Maybe it was on your github page, I don't know, but I found it alarming.

The HDR10+ movie that was giving me trouble on CroqueMr build played fine, converted to Dolby Vision. And, generally speaking, everything seemed to work ok. I connect the NUC to a Denon X3800H AVR and that to an LG C1 (I mention this as I saw on your github that you keep track of hardware tested and you mentioned no AVR tested yet). Both Atmos and DTS-X played ok.

I noticed the GPU was always or almost always sitting at 100% and headroom was most definitely not ample (and this on 24fps movies). Not something I'd be comfortable with if we were talking madVR profiles optimization. It looked like it could easily drop frames on "complicated" scenes.

Considering my hardware should be a fair bit more powerful than the N100 which works fine for 24p content on CroqueMr, I wonder if I am missing something or if, simply, your builds are more targeted toward more powerful hardware (I come from a past where the last HTPC I used for media purposes had a RTX 4070, but I'd very much like to remain fanless).

Quote from CroqueMr

I had this issue once and I never managed to reproduce it. Could you run all your file that not work properly and share the log file please for HDR10+ I am on it the pipeline does not work as expected and I do not have my HDR10+ screen to properly fix it.

I activated verbose logging for components I thought might be relevant. I'm gonna send you a download link by PM, as the log is quite long (verbose logging).

I tried the same movie on Hades build, it gets converted to Dolby Vision and it does not show the same problem (screen blanking intermittently, once every... whatever it wants, I don't think it's always in the same places). The log runs for a little bit, enough for at least three or four "blanks" to happen. Hopefully you'll notice something in the log.

Quote from maranzon

You can't expect people on this forum to go through such a lengthy troubleshooting process. Nobody has that much time.

And yet you expect people to help you.

For free, on their own time, without all the relevant information.

Isn't this sort of a nonsense?

Quote from hadesdevls

ashlar For switching, the easy way is a drive for each build: Hades starts from a USB drive just as it does from an internal disk (the Windows installer writes one), so switching is choosing which drive to boot, and each one keeps its own settings and add-ons.

Hmmm... ok. Thank you. Not the answer I was hoping for (and it reinforces my initial idea that having two different development paths would have been bad for testing) but let's see if I can work around it. Is there a way for me to have a USB key having the "full install"? Normally you use the Windows tool (but I have access to a Linux machine too) to create the USB key which installs on the internal disk. Is there a way to have the tool write to a different key? Like, I boot from an hades key built with Libre-ELEC USB-SD Creator, while having a second usb key in a different port. Does the installer allow me to select the second key as the install disk?

A question for both devs, CroqueMr and hadesdevls: I am currently testing on the aforementioned hardware (NUC 11 i3) and the machine is not "in production" (I'm keeping my Ugoos as daily driver until I have a rocks solid alternative in the NUC).

If I want to switch between your two versions, to check both them out... do I have to start from scratch every time I switch? I hope not as that would require an inordinate amount of wasted time and I have a single machine to test them on.

Or can I simply place your release in .update and reboot?

Quote from CroqueMr

I made a small hotfix in rc1.1 for those who had issues on HDR10+ and DV to HDR10 expert conversion.

Hi! Since you mention just HDR10+ and DV to HDR10 conversions I think I can safely report even though I'm still running the first RC you released yesterday. EDIT: in the meantime I updated to rc1.1 and nothing changed.

I am getting a strange effect when invoking either the menu or the stream play info (using O). Basically nothing appears and there's a tiny "miniature thumb" of the portion that should appear, in the bottom left corner. I show it in this picture I took with my phone. This happens when playing a HDR10 UHD Remux. Dolby Vision conversion happens but the menu and play info are shown like that. Also subtitles don't seem to be working (or are being displayed in that miniature thumb in the corner, quite likely). Dolby Vision native content does not exhibit this problem.

I'm also experiencing something strange with a HDR10+ Remux, this is its MediaInfo video section:

Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main [email protected]@High
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2094 App 4, Version 1, HDR10+ Profile B compatible
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 2 h 19 min
Bit rate                                 : 56.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.284
Stream size                              : 55.0 GiB (91%)
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : BT.2020
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 400 cd/m2

What I see happening is the picture constantly switching "on and off", intermittently. It doesn't appear to follow a specific time interval, let's say every few seconds. The TV loses the signal and then locks onto it once more, on and off.

No conversion happens on this file, the TV is receiving a regular HDR10 stream (it's a LG C1, so not HDR10+ compatible). On an Ugoos AM6B+, using p3i T4c build, the movie is detected as HDR10+ and converted to Dolby Vision without problems.

The system I'm testing this on is a NUC 11 with an i3 processor and 16GB of dual channel RAM.

An extra, general, question: why is it that the rendering load appears higher on DV Profile 8 than on DV Profile 7 with FEL? Over 80% with Profile 8, around 50% with Profile 7 FEL, as measured by your "O" overlay.

Just want to be sure I understand things correctly. Neither build currently supports HDR10+ ----> Dolby Vision conversion. Correct? As an LG TV owner I'm interested in that. Not that much content has HDR10+ and no DV but some exists.

Quote from CroqueMr

No not useless, I do not see any good use case, but that doesn't mean that no use case is relevant for that kind of conversion.

And regarding your quote we were talking about LLDV not SDR to DV

My bad. In any case, it's your decision. I cannot add anything to it.

LLDV can be useful, of course. SDR to DV... I'm baffled by people wanting it. HDR10+ / HDR10 to DV, I'm in favour (and I believe HDR10 to DV already works and hopefully HDR10+ to DV will come).

Quote from Khazar

If it means my heavy weight PC can deliver an even better experience to my projector

By any objective measure, I doubt a SDR-->DV conversion would bring a better experience to your projector. In any case, CroqueMr has spoken, so any discussion about this is kinda useless anyway.

Quote from CroqueMr

And for SDR to DV for me it is useless it is just a SDR track wrap up in a DV container, I do not see any gain with this kind of conversion but maybe I am wrong.

For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree.

In a world with infinite developers taking care of this, why not. In this world, where there's you and a couple of other people... better concentrate on stuff that makes sense.

Quote from DMDreview

Thank you, I’ll continue testing. I think that although the standards allow both color representation options, for some reason all players output ITP in an RGB 8‑bit tunnel. This may be due to the need or desire to send the same ITP Full range signal to the TV so that the TV perceives it identically. Since both DV P7 with Ycbcr and DV P5 with ITP are presented in the same ITP Full range in the tunnel.

Any further testing results? Is this good to go?

Quote from hadesdevls

HDR10+ on NVIDIA, AMD and Intel. The HDR10+ Gaming FAQ says PC monitors only take it over HDMI for now, so that is the cable to try.

Is this HDR10+ --> DV conversion or simply outputting HDR10+ to compatible TVs?

Quote from CroqueMr

The main difference is where the color conversion happens, either predominantly on the TV side or on the PC side

And if it happens on the PC side inevitably it leads to a performance hit (more stuff to do, after all). Correct?

But the output on the TV (the actual pixels lighting up, I mean) is supposed to be identical?

Quote from CroqueMr

I process everything in YCbCr

I'm curious about this. So YCbCr is a "legal" path for Dolby Vision? Everybody uses RGB 8 bit but they could be using YCbCr equally?
And you say it saves on processing power, right? I wonder why nobody else does it (considering it would let them get away with less powerful hardware).

(I am NOT questioning your choices, I'm just curious about this whole thing)

Quote from CroqueMr

I completely agree with you; it feels like a lot of work has been duplicated

Hopefully you'll be able to join forces. From a regular user's point of view (mine), you're all heroes anyway. Keep up the good work!

Couldn't you all join efforts and work collaboratively towards a common goal? hadesdevls

Having multiple builds to test, on a different development path seems to be a waste of resources. Both from a development point of view and, maybe more importantly, from a testing point of view.

What do you think?

Quote from bang gun

I could try to send logs if that helps but all I can see is only a simple DV=0 or DV=1 mention in the log files not sure if that's too helpful

First of all you have to activate debug logging (sorry, you might be aware of this but you never know). Then devs could then point you to activate different detailed logging options in settings, in order to get more information.

Quote from bang gun

Turns out changing the refresh rate to 120Hz messes up Libreelec recognising the TV's ability to play dolby vision

Well, this ain't normal. If you can, you should provide logs as maybe it's something that can be fixed.

Quote from CroqueMr

I think that if Dolby Vision ever makes it into LibreELEC officially, it will probably be through an approach closer to my initial implementation, before R1.0.0 Beta1, with minimal changes to FFmpeg and other upstream dependencies. I believe such an implementation is possible, but it will take time. It might also be useful to maintain a much simpler build with just the bare minimum needed for DV support. Performance won't be as good, but it will help with the implementation.

All absolutely understandable. For the time being I suppose the question becomes: how likely are you in the future to maintain your builds up to date with changes/new features from upstream? I think everybody understands there's no guarantee and, of course, no obligation. But before committing to a switch from existing working solutions, a reassuring answer on this would go a long way.

I want to stress, though, that, at least for me, a "not likely as I've got better things to do" would be 100% ok. You've already done a lot.